Friends from Wild Places

There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in

Shireen Botha/Tanya Scotece ft Damien O'Brien Season 5 Episode 13

Damien, founder of the Mental Health Association in Switzerland, shares his powerful journey from childhood trauma to mental health advocacy, revealing how his "inner echo" helped him survive and eventually thrive despite growing up in a violent environment.

• Started the Mental Health Association to combat stigma around mental health issues in Switzerland
• Grew up in Sydney surrounded by violence, alcoholism, and his mother's undiagnosed mental illness
• Developed an "inner echo" as a protective mechanism that helped him navigate dangerous situations
• Lost his brother to addiction and was heading toward jail before meeting his wife
• Moved to Switzerland thinking he could escape his problems but discovered his undiagnosed bipolar disorder had "snuck onto the airplane"
• Created the Coffee Foundation to bring "brightness and color" to mental health conversations rather than more "tears and heartache"
• Challenges toxic masculinity by emphasizing that "reaching out for help is not a sign of weakness"
• Uses Leonard Cohen's quote "There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in" as his guiding philosophy

Damien O'Brien


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Voiceover:

Tales from the wild, stories from the heart. A journey into the mind and soul of fired-up business professionals, where they share their vision for the future and hear from a different non-profit organization every month as they create awareness of their goals and their needs. Dive into a world of untamed passion. As we join our host, Shireen Botha, for this month's episode of Friends from Wild Places.

Shireen Botha:

All right, welcome, shireen. Here I am, your virtual boutique bookkeeper and QuickBooks advisor. Ever wondered how outsourcing virtual bookkeeping is? Like your favorite bowl of granola? Just as granola brings together a perfect blend of ingredients, our virtual bookkeeping services combines expertise and efficiency to streamline your finances. Why spend hours wrestling with numbers when you could be enjoying life? Outsourcing saves you time and money. No need for expensive in-house staff. With our tailored solutions, you'll not only cut costs, but also gain the peace of mind to focus on what really matters most, which is growing your business. So treat your business to the nourishing support it deserves, just like that wholesome granola. Get ready to crunch the numbers with Shireen's Bookkeeping Services and let's take the next bite together. Contact us today with a free consultation. Yes, I said that, a free consultation. If you want to know more, go check me out at www. shireensbookkeeping. com and allow me to keep your books clean so you don't have to Welcome back.

Shireen Botha:

You are listening to Friends from Wild Places, with myself, shireen, and my wonderful co-host, tanya. Tanya, how are you doing? What's going on? I feel like I haven't seen you for ages. Are you on a latest trip?

Tanya Scotece:

Yes, yes, yes, I'm traveling currently. So I just got in from Los Angeles, currently in Connecticut, and we'll be headed back to Miami later today. So so happy to join you, shireen I know we need to catch up, it's been too long and so happy to have our guest with us, damien, this morning. So, yes, yes yes, yes, yes.

Shireen Botha:

So welcome, damien. We'd love to introduce you listeners to the founder of the Mental Health Association, based in Switzerland. They are a non-profit volunteer organization dedicated to promoting mental health awareness and combating the stigma surrounding mental health issues. The suicide is the leading cause of death and hospitalization for youth in Switzerland and much of Europe. Their mission is to break down barriers and foster a culture that encourages open, non-judgmental conversations about mental health. They aim to provide a safe space for discussions, envisioning a culture that embraces vulnerability and empowers individuals to seek help and support. They dream of a world where mental health is treated with the same care and compassion as physical health. Well, welcome, damien. We are in full agreement with you and we're so excited to have you on the show with us.

Damien O'Brien:

Hey guys, thank you so much for having me, Honestly, from the bottom of my heart. We start with gratitude because, I have to warn you, I'm not podcast trained, so I'm on my little riding bicycle here with my training wheels, and both of you are my training wheels today to make sure that I don't fall off and do myself a mischief. Thank you so much for having me and that was a great introduction and, in a nutshell, that's exactly what I'm here to represent. Today is just something that I'm sure it's not just Switzerland based, but around the world. Mental health is, of course, something that is now at a critical issue around the world, and we can always take that first step back, because sometimes, as adults, it's a bit uncomfortable for us, but as young youth in this world, there's never been a time more that we need to actually come up to speed about how we can even support our youth around us. So thanks for having me.

Shireen Botha:

Yes, of course. Yeah, as I said, we're in total agreement with you and we're excited to get into the interview with you. We have a lot of questions and the we have a lot of questions and the listeners have a lot of questions for you. But, tanya, why don't you chat to the listeners a little bit about our extra content that we're creating?

Tanya Scotece:

I will, I will, but I gotta shout out to Damien. So, damien, I'm actually filming this podcast from Connecticut, which is where I was born and raised, and my dad passed away in 2023, and actually 2022, I apologize, in 2022. And his favorite place in the world he was a travel agent was Switzerland. So it's just funny I'm not in Connecticut all that often. I think I was here last time, probably in the fall, which was October, and it's just amazing that literally sitting here this morning in Connecticut, and we have a podcast guest that's from Switzerland, which is my dad's favorite place in the world. So kind of one of those synchronistic moments. So, yes, but definitely looking forward to the podcast and hearing more about you.

Tanya Scotece:

But we do have from friends from wild places. We have extra content for as little as five dollars a month or more. If folks want to contribute, they can get extra, more enriched raw content and any topic that any of our listeners choose. So we always get flooded with certain topics. We're happy to have you this morning, damian, as far as mental health awareness and things that you're doing and what your mission and movement is. So anyone can check us out. Friends from wild places Shireen has us on all of the I guess venues. Is that what you call them, shireen venues? Yes, so we are happy to have you subscribe and check out our juicy content there.

Shireen Botha:

Right, right, yeah, tanya, it was 2022, because that's when I came to visit you. Yes, yes, yes, yes, Physically have that coffee, but that's okay, that's fine, but from my memory you're right, yeah, right. So, guys, I don't know if you, I know Tanya and I are true crime enthusiasts. We really enjoy keeping up with all the latest um, and one of the the cases I've been following is the Jordan Hainan one um, basically, it was Jordan Hainan was found I think it was manslaughter for killing his military uh, wife. Um, there is a video that was caught with the security camera footage in the house of Jordan actually shooting his wife Ashley. It is. I don't. If you're not, if you're a sensitive viewer, I don't encourage you to watch that video, especially if you have trigger sensations in that department. It's really not a good video to watch. It's very sad. The biggest question that I wanted to chat to you guys about was if you guys thought that it was a fair enough judgment as manslaughter or do you think maybe he should have been found guilty of first degree murder? If you don't know, listeners, basically a former US Army service member has been found guilty of manslaughter in the shooting death of his wife, who was also a ranking officer in the military.

Shireen Botha:

A Kentucky jury convicted Jordan Hennon in the death of Sergeant First Class Ashley Hennon in their Harding County home in June 26, 2023. That day was Ashley's 37thth birthday and the couple had hosted friends to celebrate. Prosecutors charged jordan with intentional murder, arguing he harbored hatred in his heart for his wife over their strained relationship. They relied on home security footage from inside the hennon home that showed jordan shooting ash four times, going into another room to reload the gun, then returning to the kitchen to shoot her one more time and then spit on her body. Jordan testified in his defense and told the jury he broke during a fight with Ashley after allegedly enduring years of abuse from her. Hennon's defense claimed he suffered from an extreme emotional disturbance that impaired his judgment and, interestingly enough, in Kentucky, an extreme emotional disturbance can be used as a defense that reduces a murder charge to manslaughter, which is quite interesting. The 12 person jury appeared to side with Jordan's defense and found him guilty of the lesser charge of the first-degree manslaughter. The jurors later sentenced Jordan to 20 years in prison and the trial's penalty pays the maximum sentence for the offense. He must complete 85% of his sentence before he's eligible for parole consideration.

Shireen Botha:

That's all I'm going to say on it. I normally give the listeners a little bit of a roundabout of the story if you don't know about it, but basically, uh, just you know, from my point of view, I'm I'm gonna be honest. I think he should have gotten the first degree murder charge. To be honest, I don't think he should have gotten the first degree murder charge. To be honest, I don't think he should have gotten off with the manslaughter. But that's just my perspective on someone that's just been following the whole trial. What about you, tanya? What do you think?

Tanya Scotece:

So what I've come to learn as I ripen in my age is that there's always circumstances and facts mitigating circumstances and facts that we just are not privy to. So I think you know, being on a juror, you know, in the US, you know, is you know, being part of that jury. It is a team where they're given very specific instructions and they have to follow those instructions to go into the democracy rule. So you know personally, you know, hearing the story, you know, having researched it, you know one would, I would I don't want to say assume but maybe think that, yes, it probably would have been, you know, a first degree murder. However, and with a big, however, capital, bold letters, I think, so many times there are very specifics with specifications which actually reduce it to a lesser charge.

Tanya Scotece:

Now, having the video is, you know, no one can dispute whether it happened or didn't happen. It was just a matter of the sentencing. So if the jury found it based on, you know, common law, case law, things like that they can refer back to. You know, in Kentucky. So each state here, you know, has its own guidelines. I'm not familiar with Kentucky law at all, but I would say you know, yeah, personally, it sounds as if first degree murder would have upheld, but for circumstances and reasoning beyond us, the jury decided for manslaughter.

Shireen Botha:

Right, right, damien, what do you think?

Damien O'Brien:

I don't want to be a killjoy here, but I'm going to go a little bit with Tanya there even deeper. Firstly, my compassion is to everyone and anyone involved. I know we talk about these things from an opinion but, as maybe you know, tanya, maybe from the funeral direction, the impact of all of these horrific crimes, just for me I can't have an opinion because law is so complicated and we look at this an opinion on a trial and, like you said, there's so many rules and so many kind of framework that the argument has to fit into categorisations and as a viewer, of course we say well, what's right and wrong and who deserves justice. And of course we say well, what's right and wrong and who deserves justice. And of course my compassion straightaway is obviously the victim that's been, you know, the homicide that's taken place. So I wish I used to have a bit more of an opinion, like as a spectator, when it came to these kind of crime, let's say investigations and so forth.

Damien O'Brien:

Let's take a step back to Johnny Depp thing. I watched that with intrigue and of course a lot of people in public opinion thought that Johnny Depp's not guilty of everything. But I'm pretty sure that Johnny Depp was abusive in that relationship at some point. So you know where I'm going with this, and so there's no winner in all these things. So again, when it comes to such a tragic event like that, again I just feel sorry for everyone involved.

Shireen Botha:

It's true. You know, damien, we always say here at Friends from Wild Places that this is a safe space and, at the end of the day, it is what it is. It's an opinion, it's just our opinions, and it's no. You know, it's not right or wrong, um, but this is definitely a place where we can share our opinions and still love each other and respect one another. Um, but yes, you are right, you know 100 percent. Um, I think there's no innocent party when it comes to uh arguments. You know, there's always one person's side, the other person's side and the truth somewhere in the middle. Um, but yeah, at the end of the day, um, someone lost their life and that's.

Damien O'Brien:

I think one thing we can all agree on is the cheaper version of legal representation versus the more expensive end of the scale and the difference in the outcome that comes from having, let's say, a highly skilled defence attorney legal team, and it seems to match up all the time with the result, doesn't it? It seems to be, if you don't have a fantastic or well-funded legal team, you're going to end up in serious, serious consequences, even if you're on the right side or the wrong side of public opinion or the jury.

Shireen Botha:

Right, true, damien? So true, thank you for sharing that with us. Let's get straight into it. The quotes of the day is very important to us here at Friends From Wild Places, and Damien has picked a wonderful quote for us. He's said there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in. And the person that originally said this was Leonard Cohen, and let me repeat that again there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in. And so, damien, please share with us and the listeners what that quote means to you and why with us and the listeners what that quote means to you and why.

Damien O'Brien:

That quote is something that took me a long time, probably even now, even to this stage of 46 years of age, to kind of understand, maybe, what that means. Like you said before, I'm in the, let's say, the Alice in Wonderland country of Switzerland. From the outside it has a postcard of perfection from its chocolate to its water, to its Rolex watches, to the Toblerone that you see is the Matterhorn, and I think that quotation could even reflect to Switzerland in any maze. Everything that seems perfect on the outside has a crack of some type of imperfection. And that quotation to me has been something of a, let's say, a North Star to recalibrate and rebuild myself from the realization that I had multiple cracks in not just my mental health but in my, in my, uh, outlook and purpose in life.

Damien O'Brien:

I would say a simple I had the wrong dream. Uh, like a lot of people, I I woke up in life thinking that, uh, the wrong type of materialistic goals or the wrong type of rewarding contentment in life, what actually makes you soul and content, was the dream that I kind of might have been following with a lot of people, that materialistic things like money, financial aspects, cars, materialistic things, fulfill something inside and then, ultimately, um, you can either go through a life of that trying to fill that hole or you have to stop and uh and rebuild yourself, and that's where it happened for me. So I'm here today, of course, and in the future, going forward is that I embrace that, uh, those imperfections in myself and uh, and that's where I've found myself, uh, in the most growth in my life, which I'm is why I'm with you today so special.

Shireen Botha:

Well, since we're talking about it's, you know, damien, um, there's a reason why you started Coffee Foundation and that was because of your story. So we don't want to. I know there's a lot of sensitive parts to your story, so we're going to allow you to tell us your story and you can tell us what you're comfortable with and what you're comfortable letting the listeners know. But there's obviously a story to why you started the coffee foundation and, from the sounds of it, um, it sounds like a very life-changing story. So please go go ahead and share with us a little bit of your background oh well, the, the, the people from wild places.

Damien O'Brien:

Well, firstly, I am from a wild place. I'm from from Australia. That accent you can hear. I've tried to neutralise it out a little bit here in Europe, but that strong Australian accent is still with me. And of course, I was born in Sydney, australia, and I've kind of been blessed in many aspects of having lived on two planets, as I would say. I've lived on the original wild planet of planet Australia and now I live on the other side of another planet, which couldn't be further from galaxies away, which is Switzerland.

Damien O'Brien:

I grew up in, like many people I didn't grow up in, let's say, luxury or silver spoon. I grew up in a very type of tough, let's say violent, multicultural environment, which Sydney can be like other big cities around the world. I grew up surrounded by particularly a lot of violence, and that was kind of my normal. For a lot of young people today, you don't know what your normal is till you get older and that you actually can step out of that to realise your childhood is crazy, as mine was. I grew up with a lot of alcoholism. That was a big part of Australian culture. It still is today. Again, that seemed normal at the time. I also, of course, grew up with a mother that was always and had always struggled with mental health or mental illness. I think back in those times, probably in the 80s, it was more very, very taboo to talk about any type of mental health issue and my mother struggled severely from all my childhood which looked like chronic manic depression. Today that would probably be classified more if there was the classification of bipolar. My mother really had the very low downs and didn't really have the ups like I have. She kind of was always terrible as a child to see your mum so sad and so depressed and so kind of isolated and not understanding why she would react that way or why she was so sad. My father, on the other hand, he was a, let's say, a functioning alcoholic. But again, back in that childhood it was kind of the norm to see alcohol part of every social activity in australia. If you don't drink in the 80s and the 90s in australia, uh there was something wrong with you. You know it's. We're in a lot different world today and uh, so growing up that was kind of my norm. Domestic violence was a. Again, today people would say that's shocking normal. That was a normal occurrence in not just my family but in many families. Abusing women from males under the influence of alcohol and so forth was normal. That also instilled, of course, a lot of trauma in me as a young person when you see the people you cherish the most and the people you love the most.

Damien O'Brien:

Turning to certain violence and abuse, you kind of question from a very early age, let's say, the foundations of what the world is based on, and that's something you never get back because you realise, my God, the world out there is a pretty nasty, scary place and it's kind of that self-mechanism that a lot of young people have. They go into a survival mechanism and for me, all my young years up until I could break free and escape was probably just about that inner survival that young people have. And I probably remember as a young person let's not call it psychosis, but that inner little voice that we all pretend we don't have it's that protecting wizardism, as you as women, you probably know that when you're in a street and you have this intuition that there's something, someone that could bring a threat to you, I probably had this as a child, that inner voice, and it was like a small, just echo inside me that would say Damien, listen, this is crazy. This is what we're seeing here. Police in my bedroom, you know, abuse, violence, attacks. This is just not normal. We need to survive and I promise you, if we do survive, we're going to get out of this. And you've got big things ahead of you. And this was kind of like just a small echo.

Damien O'Brien:

I remember that from probably eight, seven, eight years of age to say this madness around, I'm too good for this. Me and me inside, we, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna get out of this at some point. But then, as you do, you, you lean on your friends and they're part of abusive families and they're choosing drugs as an option to numb the pain or go into a different direction and and you just kind of cycle through a childhood of chaos and then you say, okay, can I stay and survive long enough? And then you see friends that you know that are good friends. They turn to drugs and they pass away or they get arrested, they end up in jail, and you see a lot. It's called I call it the cycle, your circumstances of where you are in that family network kind of mark your passport for a pretty well-destined destination unless you're going to have some intervention that's going to break free of that. And so I kind of survived. I was lucky enough I played professional rugby league in Australia, which kind of kept me away from drugs.

Damien O'Brien:

My drug of choice was alcohol. Like most of Australians, binge drinking is just a second culture. It's like playing golf, you know, one beer equals 10 beers. And it's kind of a cycle of alcohol dependency which I remember started early on, probably 15, 16 years of age, and yeah, I kind of never knew what love was, never knew what family was really, never knew kind of what. Didn't know that. Yeah, didn't know that there was kind of going to be a world for me. I had a younger brother too that was also part of this cycle. That unfortunately is no longer with us. He died of addiction and of course I saw my brother deteriorate rapidly and he went down the road of drugs and yeah, I did all my best to. You know, you just try to survive and then you try to save and it's a cycle that never ends, luckily enough.

Damien O'Brien:

I kind of always had that inner echo in me that would grow from that eight-year-old boy and then it started to get louder. So each year and each event it would get louder and louder and louder and that inner voice in me became probably the most valuable asset that I still have today. It's had this ability to terribly this might sound a bit awkward, a bit crazy is that it would screen, or I had the ability to screen, the people in front of me and I could immediately have, let's say, a profile report Is this person a threat to me, is this a foe or an ally? And unfortunately, my inner filter from such a young boy doesn't have the political correctness to give me the report to say this person's a threat and that person and I. Even now, today, that report comes to me and I say, damien, we're not going to take the initial action, we're going to just see through things. So I ended up with this amazing ability to, to navigate through life and and and. Then, luckily enough, I was gifted, you know, an absolute miracle.

Damien O'Brien:

When I was in my early 20s my life probably wasn't going anywhere other than to jail. I've been arrested a few times for petty you know petty kind of crimes and petty type of disputes in bars and stuff like that. I definitely was always traumatised by the abuse. I saw that women, for me especially, were a sacred thing to. I could never understand how men are violent towards women or domestic violence. So I just still today can't understand it and I kind of yeah, was always looking for that love or looking for that missing to create my own family. I just didn't have that type of. I knew I had goodness in me, but of course, if you don't find goodness to latch on to or to have someone to express your love or to love you, you can be a pretty lonely life.

Damien O'Brien:

And then one night in Sydney in my early 20s I saw this little brunette and of course I thought I was John Travolta and said let's have a dance. And she could barely speak English. I gave 20 bucks to the DJ, put on the Patrick Swayze and did the lift in the middle of the nightclub. She went up high, got her pretty good I was big back in those days strong got her up and then she flipped over the back and did a somersault and landed in the middle of the disco Saturday night in Sydney and that was it.

Damien O'Brien:

That was kind of the uh, that was the, the moment where the lightning strike and, uh, my wife, who you just met before, of 20 years, um, came into my world and, uh, I probably knew, probably, yeah, probably, within five to seven days, that, uh, it was like a sliding moment, moment in life. You know people, the young people today, I'm too young to get, uh, married, I'm too old to get married and you think you can pick and choose when the lightning's going to strike. And uh, I knew that, that, uh, that woman that I met that night, I knew, oh, hold on. And uh, yeah, I went all chips in, even at a young age. And uh and um, you know, we got on the plane with a backpack and nothing. She met me.

Damien O'Brien:

I was in social housing. I had a mattress on the floor. My brother had just come out of a double lung transplant for, uh, his lungs failure due to drug use. We're in social housing. I had nothing I had. I didn't have a cracker to my name. I had no hopes. I had nothing other than that. You know echo inside me that it was something big out there for me and I had to stay in the game.

Damien O'Brien:

And then, yeah, when I met my wife, she said, okay, I'm going to take you to Alice in Wonderland, I'll take you to the chocolate factory, take you to Alice in Wonderland, I'll take you to the chocolate factory, okay, what's that? So we flew to Switzerland and uh, I didn't hesitate. I said, uh, you know, I went to the bank one Friday afternoon. I think I had a couple of thousand dollars in savings money. I took out, uh, every cent. I went to the diamond shop, spent, uh, I spent three and a half thousand on the diamond 500 for dinner. And I went all in and I said you're the one, and she said, yes, and that was it got on the three and a half thousand on the diamond 500 for dinner. And I went all in and I said you're the one, and she said yes, and that was it.

Damien O'Brien:

Got on the plane and uh, and I said, yeah, as much as Australia is a dream for everyone else, it had a lot of trauma for me. So I kind of closed the book on that and uh decided to, uh, to try and run for my problems. And uh, that's one thing we'll talk about too is that there's an amazing way that those problems sneak on the aeroplane when you're not watching. You've checked in your bag and you got your love, you got your girlfriend, you got your new life and we're going to run from this. And no, no, no. I quickly found out later on in life that those problems and those demons and those tragedies and traumas where they'd snuck on the aeroplane with me.

Damien O'Brien:

So that's where I am 20 years now I've been in Switzerland. It's been an absolute rollercoaster of a journey. Slipping onto the aircraft with me was undiagnosed mental illness. I had bipolar disorder that had come and unfortunately taken my mum and taken my brother. Uh had just decided to be dormant in me, that's all it was.

Damien O'Brien:

Uh, I was a young, outgoing positive person as Australian, but I was always, let's say, uh, highly erratic or, you know, highly risky. I've always been a risk taker and uh, I've been a gambler and uh, high stakes and uh, you know, I did that in my sport. I've always been a risk taker and I've been a gambler and high stakes and you know I did that in my sport. I've did that in everything in my kind of DNA and for most people that's the fun part. Oh, wow, damien's the happy-go-lucky guy, he's the life of the party. You know what I mean. But whatever goes up has to come down, and bipolar is a mood disorder if we want to start to use labels. But I have incredible highs which can't even be replaced by narcotics. Uh, that's what we're talking about. We're talking like, once my little inner echo starts telling me that we're good enough to do anything, he, basically that inner uh grandeur inside you tells you, tells me, david, we could do anything. And you actually have to kind of navigate and say, well, no, we, we can do anything, but we can't take risks to endanger myself or my children or risky behavior and so forth. So, yeah, that's kind of in a nutshell where I am. And today, of course, I created my own association, which has got a broad name, the mental health association, but that's just the legal identity.

Damien O'Brien:

And then I thought, okay, I need to bring the craziness in me and somehow take all of the darkness, the hurt and tears and pain that many people suffer not just mine around the world. I think mental health has enough tears and pain that many people suffer not just mine around the world. I think mental health has enough tears and it has enough heartache. It doesn't need any more violins and it doesn't need any more dramatic kind of tears. It needs brightness, it needs colour, it needs a new communication to talk to young people to say, hey, absolutely enough is enough. There's no more shame in having to reach out for help, especially for men, and not to separate the thing, but just talking as a man, there's a toxic masculinity that I had to grow out of, that reaching out for help is not a sign of weakness. There's nothing weak about me. There's nothing weak where I came from.

Damien O'Brien:

But this was an ideology of masculinity in Australia. Let's take Crocodile Dundee back in the day have to be the tough guy, have to be the unbreakable guy and I'm a former rugby guy, got to be tough and yeah, that's sure. You can be made masculinely tough and strong as a male man and no one's taking that away. But when you're a man and you have a family and two young daughters and teenagers, you also have a responsibility to your own health and to to seek help and not become collateral damage.

Damien O'Brien:

And and that's what was happening to me, I was in a self-destruction pattern and without this amazing woman to actually have that hard conversation with me and say, damien, I think you have a mental health concern or a mental health disease, whatever. These days we've got so many words we're not sure how to label it and we stopped talking because I don't know the right word. Who knows what the right word is. I was mentally ill. That's a fact. I needed to go to a psychiatric hospital because I was out of control and thank God I got there and thank God I'm still talking to you today about it, and that's the whole idea of the Coffee Foundation is just to get people talking again, and that's what it's all about.

Tanya Scotece:

Tune in next week for part two from Friends from Wild Places.

Voiceover:

You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places with Shireen Botha. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast from the links to catch every episode and unleash your passion.

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