Mastering the Art of People Management

We explore the critical elements that make or break business teams and how proper people management directly impacts company success.

Irma Parone

• Tel: +1 954-464-6689
• Website: ParoneGroup.com
• Email: irma@paronegroup.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paronegroup/

• Most businesses seek help when they're already in crisis mode, realizing teams lack direction or purpose
• Clear expectations are essential—many leaders think employees understand their role when there's actually a significant disconnect
• Rehabilitating struggling employees requires checking three boxes: clear expectations, proper tools/training, and genuine desire to do the work
• Some wonderful people may simply be in the wrong position, like managers who can't hold others accountable
• Remote work creates challenges for team connection—people typically stay at companies because of relationships, not abstract loyalty
• Business growth often stalls because owners fear delegating or hiring someone who won't meet their standards
• Cross-training and development programs prepare employees for different roles, ensuring business continuity and improving retention
• Every position has value—leaders who treat all roles "like the gold they are" create environments where people thrive
• The direct supervisor is the most important person in determining employee satisfaction and success
• The ultimate goal is creating a workplace where employees say "I love this place" rather than considering other offers

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Friends from Wild Places
• 1:07 Helping Businesses in Crisis
• 2:44 Can Employees Be Rehabilitated?
• 5:46 Education and Experience at Cornell
• 7:58 Virtual Work and Company Culture
• 10:37 Lessons Learned as a Business Owner
• 15:03 Addressing Workplace Training Issues
• 19:24 Keys to Employee Retention

Transcript

Voiceover: 0:03

Tales from the wild, stories from the heart. A journey into the mind and soul of fired up business professionals, where they share their vision for the future and hear from a different non-profit organization every month as they create awareness of their goals and their needs. Dive into a world of untamed passion as we join our host, Shireen Botha, for this month's episode of Friends from Wild Places.

Tanya Scotece: 0:35

Question. I have a question. So most folks that are hiring you and your services, are they coming to you like in crisis, like we have this team, everybody's going in a different direction and we want to bring everybody on board? Or are people being more proactive to say, maybe we're a new business or maybe we're looking to have our team get inspired? So what do you see more out in the real world with your line of work? Are you helping people in crisis or are you having people be more proactive before things fall apart?

Irma Parone: 1:07

Well, generally, they're in crisis Generally. I mean, what happens is they all of a sudden realize they don't know what to do. Yeah, yeah, my biggest customer was promoted to a COO and there were no, and she didn't even know she needed key performance indicators. You know, how do I know who's doing well, what's my team expected to do and how are they doing it, and how do we watch that go up? There were so many things that needed to be done and she was just lost and I was recommended by one of my customers in the security industry. So, and she did great. I mean, I worked for her for many years until the company was sold, and by a big company who does what I do. But she went from a COO to a president to now CEO. So she's amazing. You know, there are some customers who just don't want to listen or follow the track, but in most cases, unfortunately, it starts when they're in. Oh my gosh, I don't know what to do.

Tanya Scotece: 2:17

And, in your opinion, can employees be rehabilitated Like can they be, you know, I mean or do they have to be exited, like?

Irma Parone: 2:38

can they be? You know, I mean, or do they have to be exited, like what is it? I mean, I did HR for over 20 years in two different fields medical and mortuary so I'm pretty familiar with people and I don't think they change much across industries. So what's your lot of a lot of people when they come to me and they say you know, john Doe is a problem and I need to get rid of them, and I'll say well, let's look at it. And I find that there are a few things. Number one is are they very clear, very, very clear on the expectations? And a lot of employers say, oh, they know what to do, but when I talk to the employee and I talk to the boss and individually and say, tell me the expectation, very often it's different.

Irma Parone: 3:17

So, being very clear, knowing what's expected, not just in the job description, not just in you have to do this, but how to do it, you know you could lose a client with one interaction and with today's internet, that interaction, that problem, can be spread across thousands of people. So it's really looking at how am I developing these people so they know how to handle a problem, so they don't upset a customer? But you know, generally it's. Are they clear on expectations? Check that box right? Do they have the tools to do it? And sometimes it's a matter of helping them with focusing on the right thing. So if they think they're so busy they can't do the major things, then we work on the time management. What is distracting them? What are those problems and how do we fix those problems so that we put a bandaid on it? Right, but we also fix the root cause of the problem so that it doesn't continue. So do they have the tools, which is sometimes training. Sometimes it's a computer, you know whatever it is, and then there's learning curve.

Irma Parone: 4:28

So just because you teach me something today doesn't mean I'm going to learn, remember it tomorrow. You know I already taught them that. Well, yes, maybe you did, but you taught them a million things and we can only grasp so much stuff. So that's all a part of it. And then do they want to do it? So some people just don't want to do it and some people are just incapable.

Irma Parone: 4:50

For example, when I first took my vice president position, my boss told me you have to get rid of this one manager. And I said you know to myself, look, I've rehabbed a lot of people. I'm not going to just get rid of them, I'm going to work with them. Well, I, this guy, was so wonderful, so kind, so caring, he was so engaged, but you know what? He couldn't hold people accountable. He just couldn't do it. He was in the wrong role and I left him in it too long. So it's not like I haven't made the same mistake, but some people are just not meant for the job or just don't want to do the work. So that's kind of how I look at things.

Tanya Scotece: 5:31

Right, right, right. And I don't want to. I want to go back for a minute because I don't want to go too far forward without taking a step back. So first of all, can you share about your experience that's an amazing achievement with Cornell. You know your studies there as far as what was that like and you know what. What area of studies did you do that now have helped you in your business?

Irma Parone: 5:53

Well, the reason that they sent me there was because they wanted me in a labor relations role, which it was a. Back then I was in nuclear security, so security guards in nuclear power stations providing the security there, and I worked and they were union sites. And my boss wanted me in this role because he said I was very good at looking both sides of an issue. You know, a lot of times union and management just fight. Well, that doesn't fix things. Fighting doesn't fix things, it's finding out what we need to do. So I said you know, not that I wouldn't like to do it, but I don't like to fail and I don't know what the heck. You know, I don't know anything about labor law and stuff like that. So it really helped me in that role. We did a lot of amazing things with the union. We really worked together. It took some time but you know, just understanding labor in a more official way certainly helps in any role you're in.

Tanya Scotece: 6:59

Very nice, very nice. And I have one more question. Then I'll turn it back over to Shereen. From your experience, you know, over the years we've seen, or I've seen, I should say, some transition, with companies, for example, making, let's say, like, obviously, with the pandemic period going virtual right. So a lot of the businesses transitioned virtual. Then emerging out of the pandemic, it's like some went back fully in person, others went hybrid, others created more of an ambient or atmosphere that's more productive. I remember I think it was actually Google and Amazon, companies that had a very strategic, like you know, little pods for people to rest and coffee stations and things like that. Rest and coffee stations and things like that, what's your take over? Your evolving into your own business and, having come from you know really good studies and things, what is that doing? The culture, I would say that, that different culture, and how are people achieving that in the virtual world? Now it's it's rough.

Irma Parone: 8:01

So if you have, if if you do have virtual and you you can't get away from it, then try to have them come in and work. So much People need to connect with other people. Most people stay because of their connections, even if they love their company. How do they know their company? I had one client whose employee left and when I talked to them because I try to dig into why they're leaving and stuff, and I said, well, tell me about your company. Well, a company is the person, right?

Irma Parone: 8:38

So Apple is a company, but people don't know an Apple. They know who they worked for, that's who represents the company. They know who they work with. They make those connections and there's a lot that happens when you're together. So the way I handle it with customers that have virtual, you know, let people work all virtual is have a lot of activities together, make memorable events so that they connect with each other and they get to know each other and they have fun in you know, not just work, but get them together, have some work stuff and have a lot of play time so that they can connect. So I hope did that answer your question.

Tanya Scotece: 9:23

Yeah, yeah, most definitely, most definitely, yeah, thank you.

Shireen Botha: 9:26

I'm learning a lot, oma, because I mean, you're very good at what you do and I'm sitting here and listening, I'm taking notes, so I appreciate everything that you're chatting about today. Uh, going back to just you and your journey as a business owner, what would you say has been one of the biggest lessons that you've learned and how you've gotten over that as a business owner?

Irma Parone: 9:56

Well, that really came in stages right. There's different lessons as you grow your business. So the first one was, I think, understanding that you could win the battle but still lose the war. So and I guess this problem that probably was more when I was in labor relations, working for another company. So that might not be a fair one, but it's still an important thing to learn. So if, for example, if you're working with unions, you can win all the arbitrations right, you can come out as the winner and then have people who hate you. So it's not just what you think is important, but what really is important. Again, where you don't underestimate marketing. You know people. I don't care how good I am doesn't matter. If nobody knows about me, then what good is it? I mean, you know I'm not going to get out there. And then the people side of the business is so important. I don't care if you have one employee. You really need to love them. And I say love, it's an emotion, but they need to love you, they. I'll give you a quick thing.

Irma Parone: 11:26

So I have people that call me a lot and say you know, gee, I think I'm hiring the wrong person. And I talk about this in my speeches and when we're looking at problem solving. And so when I look into it because I'll do some research, they give me permission to contact the people that left. They say you know, I bring them in, I train them and then they're gone. Well, when I did the research, some of them hired poorly. I'll give you that, but in most cases that wasn't the problem. If you hire me and my resume's out there, there are still other people calling me. So we changed their problem from how do I hire better to how do I retain new hires, and the goal is I always tell clients your goal should be that they go home and say I love that place and if other people call them for a job, they say nope, I found something other than well, what are you paying? So I hope that answered your question.

Shireen Botha: 12:34

This is very good. This is all very good because for me, I'm a one-man band. I have been for years now and I think my biggest chat and I know the times come in when I'm going to have to hire my first employee but I've got to be honest. I think my biggest struggle that I had to get over first is the difficulty of trusting another person to do as good of a job as I can do. So that trust first of all, and the other thing is is I'm always scared of hiring the wrong person, like I wouldn't want someone that's got the wrong intentions in.

Shireen Botha: 13:16

You know, in my business is trying to capture my clients and then result. I've heard horror stories, horror stories of employees, just other business owners hiring not the best employees. But I love what you said, irma. I do want to do that, though. I want to create a space for my employees to feel loved and feel appreciated and valued, and I want them to feel like they. They don't want to leave because of the environment that I've created for them. So I I like what you're saying and I hope I can tell you, a lot of people hold themselves back because they are.

Irma Parone: 14:07

They have the same fears that you do, so you're not alone. But you just can't grow until you. Until you do that, how much can you grow without killing yourself and working, you know, 84 hours a day? So there are ways to um, there's no guarantees. Of course you can hire somebody that's really good at pulling things over you, but there are. I mean I, one of my partners, is somebody who does background screening. She worked in the nuclear industry that's how I knew her, so and she's very affordable.

Irma Parone: 14:41

So, making sure you do background screening and how you interview them and how you get references, I mean a lot of employers won't give information right. They're afraid of being sued. But I have ways of. You know, I want to know anybody who will talk to me about them, whether they were a coworker and you wouldn't believe. Poor employees think they have friends and they don't. You can get a lot of information. But you know I loved my one boss so much and he really gave me a lot of the basis for my high value employee focus and when I left him I was recruited away. I gave him a two month notice and the company that hired me said I can't wait for two months. I said I'm sorry, then I'm not coming, and they gave me the leniency to do that because I loved him. I still do. We're still good friends. So there are ways to get past some of that stuff, and some of it is accepting that everything won't be exactly the way you do it, but some of it might be better. That's true.

Shireen Botha: 15:53

It's the control. I guess hey, like, yeah, control it's being a business owner. You've got control of your business. So it's that handing over the part of your business that you've been doing for such a long time that you know you're doing excellently and your clients love it about your business. But it's that trust and that letting the move, control and going okay, I'm gonna trust you. I've trained you enough. Now I think you can do this and just you know, right, right you can do it.

Irma Parone: 16:25

You can do it, I'm sure of it.

Tanya Scotece: 16:27

I have some, just an area that I want to explore a little bit with you. So, from where I sit in my current position working with students, I hear a lot and see about lack of training in the workplace, right? Or being trained by somebody that doesn't have your best interest in mind. That doesn't have your best interest in mind. So, for example and there's been some research that looking into as far as, like, bullying in the workforce Okay, so meaning that like, let's say, you have somebody that's leaving a position because it no longer suits that person and now they are in charge of training the new person, they may not want that company to be successful, they may not want that person to be successful. So what, and if any, recommendations on that side of things that maybe some businesses that are listening to this podcast, right, like the owners or managers, should be aware of to say, and maybe having the person that's leaving train the new person may not be the best interest of the company or for the potential of the new hire.

Irma Parone: 17:33

So we have egos right. If I leave a position, I should care about the company and the employee taking over, but I might feel like, well, gee, I want them to miss me, so I'm not going to do this. My suggestion is to really reverse the way you're working it and work on a growth and development program. So start having people prepare for the next role, if they're interested in certain roles. Just develop a little bit work with that person, work with each other so that they're learning different jobs, so that you at least can continue your business if that person leaves.

Irma Parone: 18:23

Some people don't even give a notice, which is, you know, death by suicide. I mean, it's crazy, but there are people who don't even give you that notice. So I would not give somebody who was leaving unless I knew them well, that job. I would work on a growth and development plan to get people prepared so that they can learn different skills. And that also helps with employee retention, because employees like to know that there's some growth capability and it shows them that you care about them, that you want them to grow in the company. So there's a lot of different reasons that I recommend that.

Tanya Scotece: 19:06

Right, the company. So there's a lot of different reasons that I recommend that Right. It's almost like it seems like from what I'm taking away if I'm, if I can share, it is it seems like cross training, but but but much deeper and and not just covering for the day or covering for somebody's vacation or company's, somebody's maternity leave or something like that, but really understanding the mission or vision of the company to be able to assume other positions, growth roles and potential future happier employees. Right, is that what I'm getting at?

Irma Parone: 19:38

And it's actually putting them in the role. So working with someone, if I need an accountant right and somebody's interested in accounting, accountant right and somebody's interested in accounting, then little splurts of, but scheduled, you know an actual program where I can work with that person and learn a strategic pathway little by little. You know not to interrupt my job too much and then you know teach them. When I work with companies on training their employees, it's not just a matter of teaching them because, as I said, there's a lot of learning curve right, teaching them, letting them watch you. You watch them right, you put them in the role and then, when you feel confident that they can do the job, then give them a little project here and there. So it really prepares people and it makes it interesting.

Tanya Scotece: 20:34

Right, right, and do you find with your services I mean, can you come into a company and turn it around and then have them have their own tools to move forward, or do you quote unquote, have to be on retainer for them? Or is that part of you know your like proposed package? I would say for the company, like, are you always with them or are they okay to go?

Irma Parone: 20:56

yeah, so if if I'm doing my job well, they should be able to fire me, because they don't need me anymore that's a that motto and a half.

Tanya Scotece: 21:05

Irma, you're like if I do my job well, I expect to be fired.

Irma Parone: 21:12

But what happens is yeah, but there's always problems here and there. So what happens is and I just charge hourly so you could use me as much or as little. You know I'm not one of these people that say you have to pay me $50,000 a month, no, but as they have turnover and things, you know they still usually maybe once a month we'll do a, you know, even just a Q&A. You know, like office hours I'll be available for certain hours that your supervisors can come on or whoever and ask questions or things like that. So usually they stay with me. Except you know this one company. I mean they have this whole other. You know this big company that has pretty much, but I still hear from my client.

Tanya Scotece: 22:00

Yeah, yeah. And what would you say are the like if you had to give top three reasons bulk them together, lump them together. Cross cultures, big and small businesses, thousands of employees, two employees I've always heard the expression back in the day. It was like if you have one employee, you have an HR issue. So what are the three main areas that you feel really are the top three areas for companies struggling or with employees, is it? Let me just give you some examples Like would it be, you know, not feeling appreciated? Would it be not being trained? Would it be no communication with higher administration? What, from your everything that you've seen, cross-culture companies? What would your top three be? Everything that you've seen cross-culture companies.

Irma Parone: 22:48

What would your top three be? Well, your direct supervisor is the most important person that that company needs to focus on, because if I work for you, doesn't matter what the CEO does. You're the one that's going to train me, or make sure I get trained. Protect me against the big bad wolves up in corporate right, because there's a lot of pressure. The higher you go in an organization, the more pressure there is and the more focus on the bottom line. So you have to meet that bottom line. But it's how you do it and that immediate supervisor is the most important person for that, for each employee.

Irma Parone: 23:29

The other thing is having a clear chain of command. You know making sure that if I report to three people and they're all over the place, it just is confusing. Who's holding me accountable? Usually it's nobody, right, god? There's so many things, I don't know how to pick three. But it's really getting people to love you. I don't mean, by being giving care of them, even if that means hard conversations, making them know how appreciated they are. I had a guy who I wouldn't work for. When he talked to me about his employee, he said you know, I told this employee a monkey can do your job. How can you screw it up? How do you feel when somebody says a monkey can do your job? Every single role in an organization has a critical piece to it, every single one.

Irma Parone: 24:38

If you're in payroll and people don't get paid, that's a problem. If you're in customer service and those customers aren't taken great care of, that's a problem. If you're in sales and you're in customer service and those customers aren't taken great care of, that's a problem. If you're in sales and you're not growing the company, that's a problem. So it's not a matter of one, it's a matter of do you need these positions? And if you do, you treat them all like the gold they are.

Shireen Botha: 25:03

Tune in next week for part three of Friends from Wild Places. Tune in next week for part three of Friends from Wild Places.

Voiceover: 25:08

You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places with Shireen Botha. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast from the links to catch every episode and unleash your passion.