What Drives People To Commit Crime

People love to ask the million-dollar question: what causes someone to commit a crime? We go deeper than a single motive and talk through the messy truth that criminal behavior is multifactorial. Greed, jealousy, revenge, ideology, and plain old stress can all play a role, but the most useful framework is what protects people when temptation or pressure hits. We break down self-control alongside protective factors like family, community, faith, and work and what happens when those anchors disappear and risk factors take over.

Nancy Alleyne

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancy-a-aa244848/

Then we get practical for students and career-changers: what the criminal justice field actually looks like beyond the TV version. We talk expectations versus reality, the CSI effect, and what mainstream true crime often gets wrong about the scope and pace of real investigations. Finally, we share a concrete tool for planning your next step, the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook Handbook, plus real examples of career paths that do not start with a badge but still lead to meaningful work.

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Transcript

Opening And Show Premise

Voiceover 0:03

Tales from the Wild. Stories from the Heart. A journey into the mind and soul of finding business professionals where they share their vision for the future. And hear from a different nonprofit organization every month as they create awareness of their goals and their needs. Dive into a world of untamed passion. As we join our host, Shireen Botha, for this month's episode of Friends from Wild Places.

Tanya Scotece 0:38

So

What Causes The Criminal Mind

Tanya Scotece 0:39

from a little girl with your mom watching the television shows, then solo watching the shows, then getting into the field, and as you shared, all you know, undergraduate, graduate, and master's, I mean, um, undergraduate, uh, your master's degree and your doctorate, what can you sum up just from like a perspective to say, what does cause the criminal mind? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what causes it? Like, I mean, I mean, because my background, unlike yours, is more on the death side, like actually like death investigation. But I have a bachelor's in criminal justice as well. And I always like to do like like how how did somebody do this? Or, you know, like more on that side. So if you can you share a little bit as far as like what in all of your whether it's personal research, working in the field, working as a probation officer, which my God, that could be a whole podcast in itself, and now teaching, what do you think drives people to do to do the devious behavior?

Nancy Alleyne 1:41

It's multifold. Um, there's not just one thing. Um, depending on what it is, it could be greed, it could be jealousy, it could be revenge, it could be uh an ideology, right? Whether it is a social ideology, a religious ideology, it it's so many different factors. It could even be stress, um, it could be uh a combination, excuse me, uh, of um different types of stressors, right? Financial stressors, family stressors. Um, so it depends on the person. Um they may have learned that depending on the day, many of us can resort to committing a criminal act. Um, it is about self-control, it is about understanding who we are that keeps many of us from committing those crimes. Have we thought about doing those crimes? Absolutely, especially on 995. Absolutely. Um, but what stops us from committing those crimes are what we call those protective factors, right? Those things that protect us from committing those crimes. Um, your family, your fate, your community, your job, right? You don't want to lose these things. So when people lose some of those protective factors, right? So they they now have risk factors, um, they commit the crimes. I many times I've asked my probationers, why did you do this? Right? Did you not think you were gonna get caught again? I'm still trying to stand. Did you not think you were gonna get caught? And many of them was like, so what? You know, they didn't have protective factors, they didn't have a mom at home waiting for them saying, please don't go out there and do X, Y, and Z because my heart would be broken. Many a times they were running with uh with the wrong crowd, right? They didn't have someone to look up to to say, young man, young girl, let's do something productive with our time. They didn't have that. So when you take away those protective factors and you introduce all these risk factors, people commit crime, right? Um, the adults as well, right? Sometimes it's just about jealousy. I I don't want you to succeed, or I want what you want, what you have. Um, but self-control for a lot of us is what keeps us from committing these crimes.

Tanya Scotece 4:19

Yeah, yeah. Fascinating, fascinating.

Shireen Botha 4:22

And that's

Buzzsprout Message And Podcasting CTA

Shireen Botha 4:23

the best million-dollar question you could have asked, Tanya, because that is something that we all want to know. Like, what on earth are you thinking? Um but listeners, before we continue, let me just jump in here and talk to you about Buzz Sprout. Friends from Wild Places is a place we share stories from other business owners, professionals, entrepreneurs, educators, a safe space, this is to show support for each other. Um, in a world that can be very lonely and can be tough, and you know, be support and inspiration is lacking. So this podcast is here to inspire people to make that first jump, to open their first business, to be that entrepreneur, um talking about career choices and to hear other people's inspirational stories of how they got to where they are. Uh, this is it. Inspiration right here. And this is what we do here at uh Friends from Wild Places. We also feature nonprofits every month to try and make a difference to give a helpline to someone in need. So the question is do you have a message you want to share with the world? Or maybe you just think it'll be fun to have your own talk show. Podcasting is the easy, inexpensive, and fun way to expand your reach online. To start your own podcast, follow the link in the show notes. This lets Buzz Sprout know that uh we sent you and it does support and help the show. So remember, the team at Buzz Sprout is passionate about helping you succeed. Now,

Why We Fascinate Over Criminals

Shireen Botha 6:03

Nancy, we just talked about the crazy public reaction to the Luigi Mangioni case. In your years teaching criminal justice, have you noticed that the public's psychological fascination with criminals have shifted? Or have human beings always been wired to root for the anti-hero?

Nancy Alleyne 6:31

Okay, so crime killing is as old as time. Um, we can see the first recorded killing in um the sacred text, right? Um, with Cain kill killing Abel. So there's always been crime. I believe the public appetite. I I think that's a good, I think the public appetite has changed, right? So remember I I spoke about my mom and I watching these uh soft uh crime shows, Murder She Wrote, Magnum PI, um what's another one?

Shireen Botha 7:16

Um I remember Murder She Wrote because I watched it as well as a child.

Nancy Alleyne 7:23

Right? Um, these shows, though they you know centered around things that people did, you know, these murders, it was about solving a crime, it was about following the detective, about you know, getting justice. Then we're moving away, there's a shift from the soft crimes um to um procedural crime shows. So NYPD Blue, um what a Cagney and Lacy, either, you know, those shows as well, um, where it was a little more gritty, if you will, right? So it was a little more realistic. And then you go into the podcast and the books. So from that, the appetite of society grew. We love to hear about who done it, um, how did the detectives you know solve the crime, and whether or not um there's an anti-hero. And if so, were they fighting for us? Were they fighting for the underdog? Were they fighting for the little people? And if so, we're gonna root for them, right? That's why Robin Hood, the movie, I think the four or five of them was so popular because we understood as a society that you have governments, you have institutions that are a lot of times set up against the little folks, against the regular person. So when we have these TV shows, when we have these podcasts, these books and everything, we're going to root for the the one who's going to shed light on injustices always. And I think society nowadays has more of an appetite for that sort of um that that sort of event. And that's why this case, the Mangioni case, a lot of he was able to raise, you know, 1.2 or $1.5 million. Well, yeah, because people are like, I understand this, right? My child was rejected uh for a surgery. My mother, my son, my daughter, my wife, my husband, they understand it. So because of that, they're like, yes, you know, um, whether or not they agree with murder, I or killing of a human being, it almost becomes a separate question, right? It's more so I identify with the reason behind what was done.

Tanya Scotece 10:12

That's

Student Expectations Versus Career Reality

Tanya Scotece 10:13

powerful. That's powerful, Nancy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I I have a question. I just want to jump in because it's just, it's uh it's so fascinating just having you, you know, the opportunity just to ask you questions uh and sit here this morning. But um one of the questions I have is when you have students, and you know, we're both professors at Miami Dade College, obviously in Miami, Florida. When you see students having, you know, sitting in your classroom, what a is the expectation of the student? Like, for example, like where do they where do they think they're gonna go? And what is the reality? Like, because you said like you've done many things within the criminal justice field. I shared I'm in criminal justice, but I'm I don't do what you do. I'm in the death care. So I'm just fascinated to see what up, you know, like for the from the college perspective, if you want to speak on that, your classroom, and what is the reality? What kind of jobs can students actually pursue, you know, like realistically?

Nancy Alleyne 11:14

Um, and when I like the first day of class, that is one thing I share with my students so they can have an understanding that the criminal justice field is very broad, right? So I will share my right because many times a lot of these students think that we wake up as boom, uh as a professor, you know, we wake up as, you know, FBI agent, we wake up as these things. But I often tell them, um, and I had a humble strength. I started in retail, and I was putting out my resume out there, and I waited for that call. And that call came while I was on the floor in my retail job, saying you have an interview for uh fraud investigation that Monday, and I think it was a Friday, I guess called, and I told my boss, you know, I won't be in on the weekend, sorry, but you know, and so that began my journey. And when I tell my students that I was in retail, it it kind of gives legitimacy to the journey because they're like, oh, okay, so if my professor, who's Dr. So-and-so, can say that she started off at retail, then I'm okay. I'm the stress, you can see the stress leave their face and leave their body because they're like, oh, okay. So I was a fraud investigator, I tell them. Then from fraud investigation, I was um an enforcement officer for child support. Um, and then from that, I was a probation officer. So I tell them all of these things to uh let them know that the criminal justice field is wide and varied, right? So that you can do so many different um career paths within the criminal justice field. It's not just policing, it's not just corrections. So there are so many things. And then from there, I you know, I give them websites that they can go and see and explore. Um, one website is USA um, I forget the website, I will pull it up one second, but it it just lets them know that they can go and research the different types of jobs and it will let them know that um they can um their own, make their own journey on this path, right? So um some of the crime shows um actually have been um misleading to a lot of the students coming in. Um the CSI crime shows for one, right? So I remember when the CSI crime shows began, um, enrollment was high in the criminal justice uh classes, in the courses, I mean waiting room only type situation, right? Um, and it and a lot of them were coming in with the idea and expectations that what they saw on TV was what their career path would look like or what they would be experiencing in the field, you know, whether it be driving the Hummer Coral Gables or, you know, wearing the high heels, you know, collecting, you know, blood splatter, you know, whatever, you know. Um, and I had to be the one that explained to them um what these crime shows were and what they were not, and what the criminal justice field actually was. And from that, a lot of them, and again, you can see the expression on their face was like, what? Um they now understood that it's different, it's not real. What you're seeing on TV a lot of times is for entertainment purposes only, and maybe they should have this a little disclaimer on a lot of these TV shows, the procedural ones, right? The scripted ones for entertainment purposes only. Um, because it gave a lot of people false um knowledge of what happens in the field. So I was able to, you know, I still mention that because a lot of them still watch it, but now we have so much more realistic crime shows um on court TV and uh, you know, TV shows like 48 hours, the next 48, where it's a little more realistic, though they only show the the exciting cases, right? They don't show the ones, right? They're not gonna show the ones where the detective is sitting there for 12 hours, you know. Um, but they show the exciting ones. So I explain to my students my journey and I start from the very beginning. That gives them an understanding of where their journey is going and what they can expect, and then I um allow them to uh relax in their own journey, right? Because they have to understand it's a process. Everyone doesn't jump from um getting their bachelor's degree to FBI agent. Some can, but not everybody does that, right? So there needs to be a process, there needs to be steps, and I I tell them what the steps are, right? So I want them to be successful. So my whole goal is for them to create a map for themselves. What is it that they have to do? How do they go about doing it? What should they do? Right. And they can ask me throughout the semester, throughout their time at Miami Day College, you know, Dr. Aline, um, what should I do now? How do I go about doing this? I want to do X, Y, and Z. And I will be there every step of the way to help them on their journey on their back.

The CSI Effect In Classrooms

Shireen Botha 17:39

My question is, because I love CSI. Love CSI, you know, I would be really one of those students, be super disappointed if my professor told me it ain't like CSI, Shereen. Did you have a lot of dropouts after you told them the truth?

Nancy Alleyne 17:56

Um not so much. Um, it was a more of a let me rethink. They didn't drop out, but let me rethink what it is that I'm gonna do. Okay, if this is not real, then what is it that I want to do? Do I want to go to law school? Do I wanna be a correction officer? Do I wanna so there was a a shift in thinking, not necessarily, but a shift in thinking. But I made sure um that they understood that you know, reality, what you see on TV is two religiously different things.

Shireen Botha 18:37

And that's important. That's very important to let um anyone know that wants to start uh any sort of career, what it's really gonna be like for them. Um, but also your life is a canvas. So if you change your career three or four times in your life, that's totally fine. So what you started out with is not necessarily how you're gonna end your life. So don't put too much pressure on yourselves regarding that. But

What True Crime Gets Wrong

Shireen Botha 19:05

uh why anyway? So um I'd love to just ask you about true crime podcasts, Nancy, because the true crime podcasts that we all know and love tend to focus really heavily on the gore and the mystery, you know. But from an academic perspective, why is the biggest thing mainstream true crime media consistently gets completely wrong about how real investigations work?

Nancy Alleyne 19:38

Um, well, that would be the scope, the pace, and what police actually do. Right? So a lot of times, and and I'll go back to CSI and a lot of these scripted shows, you know, the podcast, and and I was listening to one that was very um intriguing, the Adan Sayed case um from serial. And I was into that. Um, but but what we have to understand um from a listener point of view is that the podcast is condensing things, is um uh editing on the basis, right? So when we think, oh, they solved this in 45 minutes, you know, minus the commercials, um, a lot of people expect that a real crime will be solved in that amount of time or quickly. Um, that DNA is always going to be present in every crime that you have, or that there's always going to be a reliable eyewitness, right? And that's not true, right? And a lot of the podcasts will have your witnesses, will have DNA, the TV shows will have the DNA, they will have witnesses, they'll have these fancy um technologically advanced screens that you know touch in the air. And so a lot of these departments don't have money for that. They don't have that, they don't have the money for these equipment, they don't have the technology. So now when you you're uh you're a podcast listener, you're watching these crime shows, and you get called in to serve jury duty, your expectation now is okay, so these police departments gotta have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. As I saw on that TV show. Or I listened to this podcast and they were able to da da da. Why can't these police officers do that? Right. So again, right, there's a Little bit of a false expectation when it comes to the listeners when real crime is at stake, right? They believe that it's solvable within an unreasonable amount of time, that the evidence that is collected or not collected should or should not be there when in reality it's something different. So there's there's a little disconnect there from some of it. Some of it with some of it.

Shireen Botha 22:34

Yeah. I mean, some of them get some of the podcasts are actually really good. Um, because it's uh some uh the the one that I know I think my sister listens to it, then I hear her sometimes when I'm driving in the car with her. Um it's two lawyers that are trying to um explain to the listeners everything that's not heard about the case, you know, what they don't hear in the in the in the mainstream media. So you you just they explain things better, they they give you all the the thing, the extra factors that are being considered, uh what it's really like as a lawyer, what you know, what they have to take into consideration. So some of them actually are quite informative, depending on the perspective that they're coming from. Um these two were lawyers in that specific uh uh genre. Um and I believe the case that they were talking about was the mentor was the two actors. What was the lady's name? Uh sexual um Maldoni is the guy, I think. And uh the woman anyway, it was two actors and she she uh accused him of sexual harassment on the on the on the movie scene and set. Uh can't remember the name, but anyway, these two lawyers in the in the podcast were giving the lowdown of everything that's not mentioned in the in the media, what's really going on and why the process is taking so long, because it has been taking so long, it's very drawn out. Um, and they were just giving some really important information. So some of them get it right, to my point in what I was saying. So uh, but there are some that um yeah, that's it.

Nancy Alleyne 24:37

Sensational, right? They just they you know, they talk about the hot topics, but don't delve deep into the specifics of it, right?

Shireen Botha 24:47

Because it's all about listeners, hey? How many listenings they can get and downloads they can get, so they'll just stick to the juicy parts, right? Yeah, people want to hear the juicy parts.

Degrees And Real Job Pathways

Tanya Scotece 24:59

Um, okay. Yep, Nancy, you mentioned that you teach in for the associate's degree students and for the bachelor's degree students, right? What is the difference a from the program perspective of both and for job opportunities for the students once they graduate Miami Dade College?

Shireen Botha 25:18

Great question.

Nancy Alleyne 25:20

Well, it's one program, it's just split, right? So some just yeah, so some just come in for their associates, um, and those are lower level courses. So your 100 or 200, so your introduction to criminal justice, your introduction to criminology, those sort of courses. Um, from there, they can move on to the 300 to 400 level courses and complete their bachelor's at Miami Day College. Some will come in just to do their mass, their, I'm sorry, their associates at Miami Day and then transfer out to other universities to complete that. Some will come in because they're already working in the field and they want to get their associates or they want to get their bachelor's. So it's different types of students coming in for different types of reasons. Um, the job perspective, depending on what it is that they want to do, is um wide open, right? So many of them come in and they want to go to law school. So Miami Dade College School of Justice has a three plus three program with St. St. Thomas University, right? So they want to be a lawyer. They want to they know for sure that this is their path. So with the three plus three program, um, we will have a specific pathway, a journey for them to follow, to take their courses, some of their courses at Miami Dade College and some of their courses at St. Thomas University, so that they can finish their degree, um, their jurisdoctorate degree, their becoming a lawyer uh much faster. So for that, it depends, right? Some I've just had a student who just emailed me and said, Thank you, professor. I just became a probation officer. And I was like, you know, I was, I was, I was twitched, right? She said it was all because of me, right? The stories that I told in classroom. Um, you know, I was able to uh I know um at one point I they had uh internships, right? And so I was sending my students doing internships there, so they would get an idea. Um, I've had students as well take some classes and they're like afterwards, they're like, Professor, thank you. Now I know what I don't want to do. I do not this, right? And I think it was a corrections course I taught. They were like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Right. So for depending on the course, depending on the student, they will understand what it is that they want to do and how they want to do it. And um previously I had mentioned that there's a website that I give my students so that they can look more for information. I was able to find it. It's called Occupational Outlook Handbook. And it is um by the uh Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's a government website. And so for them, for my students, I tell them to go on there, type in a job that you're gonna do. And what it will do, let's say correction officer or probation officer or lawyer, and they type it in. And what will happen is that it will pop up with what you need to do to become this, right? So it gives them step by step. You need to have a four-year degree, you need to take this test, you need to blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You need to blah blah blah blah blah blah, right? So for them, that's another added um checklist for them that they can have. They can go back to this website. Again, it's occupational outlook handbook. It's by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. They just put in the job that they want and it gives them, you know, the pr the outlook for this job. Is it going to increase? Is it gonna decrease? Um, should they move outside of Florida because the pay will be better, right? Or should they stay within Florida? So I give them as much help as possible along the way so that they can be successful. And the courses are built so that they will get experience. Because many times the students come in, they don't know what they want to do, right? So the courses themselves allow them to be able to think about their career. Like, oh, I like this, I like the juvenile delinquency. I didn't think I would like, you know, talking about the juvenile issues and juvenile problems within society. Maybe I want to become a juvenile advocate or a juvenile probation officer, right? So these courses allow the students to really um think and see for themselves what aligns with what they want to do, um, what aligns with their personality as well, and what aligns with their goal in life.

Shireen Botha 30:08

Tune

Part Three Tease And Closing

Shireen Botha 30:09

in next week for part three of Friends from Wild Places.

Voiceover 30:13

You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places with Shireen Botha. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast from the links to catch every episode and unleash your passion.